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Did Manny Pacquiao Deserve to Win Marquez’ WBC Title?

March 17, 2008

Does Manny Pacquiao deserve his new title, which he wrested (some say, unfairly) from Juan Manuel Marquez during their match on March 16?

As you know, Manny Pacquiao was declared the winner by a split decision. The first judge, Jerry Roth, judged Marquez the winner (he gave Marquez a score of 115 and Pacquiao, 112). The second judge, Duane Ford, favored Pacman (115 for Pacquiao and 112 for Marquez). The third judge, Tom Miller, gave Pacquiao a score of 114 and Marquez 113. This deciding vote gave Pacquiao the match and the title.

Not everyone agrees that Pacquiao won the match. Naturally, Marquez’ camp is of this opinion. This is what Marquez had to say in an interview with the Associated Press (full Associated Press report can be found at newsday.com).

“I don’t like the decision,” Marquez said. “I still feel I am the champion. It was a bad decision. That first knockdown, he got me cold, but then I adjusted my game plan and I thought from then on, I dictated the whole fight. … The people are the best judge, and the people are booing him. I won.”

Allegedly, Marquez landed more power punches than Pacquiao did.

Do you agree with Marquez – or do you think the judges’ final decision was spot on? Were the judges right in awarding Manny Pacquiao the title?

Please answer this question as objectively as possible. Even if we love Pacquiao (I certainly do – but not in THAT way, he he) please don’t let personalities or loyalties get in the way of a straight answer. Use your reason in answering this question and do not hesitate expressing your true opinion.

And need I remind you not to flame others when they disagree with you? As J.S. Mill said,

If mankind minus one were of one opinion, then mankind is no more justified in silencing the one than the one – if he had the power – would be justified in silencing mankind.

Of course, this does not mean that you can’t respond – you are welcome to disagree but again, do so reasonably.🙂

p.s. Congratulations, Manny Pacquiao!!!! Bravo!!!

Please make your presence felt. Sign my guestbook or leave a comment. Thanks!

21 Comments leave one →
  1. Loreto permalink
    December 16, 2008 4:53 pm

    I think the fight could have gone either way. Manny the agressor put on a spectacular show and Marquez put on a great show by showing his countering superiority. I firmly beleive the difference in the fight was the knockdown which gave MP the edge of Marquez. Also, keep in mind what stlyle of boxer your prefer; counter punchers, agressors, etc..

    • December 18, 2008 3:18 am

      Thank you very much for your input, which is very much to the point, I might add.🙂

  2. August 13, 2008 2:49 am

    Chewie,

    Yeah, that much was obvious; Pacman was uncertain about the result. But I did think he was surprised. There was a split second there when he did not react at all. But that surprise could be just “pleasant surprise” and not surprise that comes from the expectation of defeat.

    And no, I don’t think you’re splitting hairs. 🙂

    – Jinky

  3. Chewie permalink
    August 12, 2008 8:02 pm

    I just didn’t see it that way. I think he was uncertain what the result would be, as the fight was so close, but I don’t think he expected to lose. I don’t think he expected to win, either. I honestly think he didn’t know how it would go. The media was deeply divided over the result, illustrating the divergent opinions on the fight. Marquez’s promoter and Pac’s trainer both thought the fight could’ve gone either way; that’s how close it was. I’m not trying to split hairs or anything like that; I just think that uncertainty is being confused with lack of expectation or concession of defeat.

  4. August 9, 2008 1:53 am

    Chewie,

    It was true Pacman had a peculiar look on his face when he was declared the winner. Whether it was surprise or relief, I can’t be sure until I watch a rerun. It was obvious though that he did not expect the final result.

    Thanks for sharing and for dropping by!🙂

    – Jinky

  5. Chewie permalink
    August 9, 2008 1:25 am

    Had it 115-114 Pac.
    Round 1: 10-10
    Round 2: 10-9 Marquez
    Round 3: 10-8 Pac
    Round 4: 10-9 Pac
    Round 5: 10-9 Marquez
    Round 6: 10-9 Marquez
    Round 7: 10-9 Pac
    Round 8: 10-9 Marquez
    Round 9: 10-9 pac
    Round 10: 10-9 Pac
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: 10-9 Marquez
    If you look at punch stats, you yhave to do it round-by-round, and Pac had the edge there.
    Also, I thought the look on Pac’s face when he found out he’d won was more relief (nervous waiting for the decision in a close fight) than surprise.

  6. July 27, 2008 7:18 pm

    Manny is the winner, bacause of his knock-down punch at the third round
    vote here for their third fight
    http://www.votecorner.com/topic.php?topicID=79

  7. Jinky Bagagñan permalink
    June 11, 2008 4:25 am

    Hi Alex!

    Thanks for visiting and contributing something to the discussion.🙂

    – Jinky

  8. June 5, 2008 1:55 pm

    I realy think is stupid to say is the damage done during the fight because the damage marquez received was by head but’s from manny other than that it wass all marquez the fight even with the 2 knockdowns marquez had the score card should be something like (114 -112 marquez)., because manny only had clear like 3 rounds all the rest marquez was the one ho did the damage to manny he boxed him nicely all the fight and the cuts manny had they where coused by a clean pounch , you just need to see the fight again to view it wass a stolen fight they even gave the first round to pacman wen he did not hit not even a jab on that round ..

  9. Jinky Bagagñan permalink
    May 25, 2008 6:14 pm

    Edgar,

    Hi there! Thanks for leaving a comment and for dropping by! Do feel free to drop by anytime.🙂

    – Jinky

  10. May 15, 2008 7:48 am

    It was ended a very confusing verdict for the judges and even to both manny and marquez who were both expecting unfavorable decisions at the end of 12th rounds. However, judges are more experienced to choosing who’s the best man in the game. It turn out that manny impressed two of the judges thus the win.

    For me, Manny handily won the fight not of popularity but a simple gesture of a fighter who has never been hurt by the opponent. Manny was the agressor all throughout the whole fight and I think it was a very fair decision on the part of the judges but of course unfair to the losser as usual.

    Thanks guys….

  11. May 15, 2008 7:46 am

    It was ended a very confusing verdict for the judges and even to both manny and marquez who were both expecting unfavorable decisions at the end of 12th rounds. However, judges are more experienced to choosing who’s the best man in the game. It turn out that manny impressed two of the judges thus the win.

    For me, Manny handily won the fight not of popularity but gestured of a fighter who has never been hurt by the opponent. Manny was the agressor all throughout the whole fight and I think it was a very fair decision on the part of the judges but of course unfair to the losser as usual.

    Thanks guys….

  12. Jinky Bagagñan permalink
    April 9, 2008 11:04 am

    lilmaqi,

    I was of the same opinion, too, which was why i started this post. I wanted to understand so that I can sleep at night (he he).

    Anyway, when i found out how the judging was done, I understood how Manny Pacquiao could have won even if my eyes told me otherwise (Marquez’ power punches were spectacular). Now, the question is, is the judges’ decision right?

    If I were to base my answer on the fact that these judges certainly have the experience and the expertise to judge a professional match while I am a mere spectator who became interested in boxing only when Pacman started making a name for himself (I know, how shallow of me he he😆 ), I’d say I’ll believe the judges this time.

    Thank you for your comment! 🙂

    – Jinky

  13. lilmaqi permalink
    April 7, 2008 10:51 pm

    Im not so an intelligent guy. I judge by what i see. After the fight i didnt know who’s gonna win but by looking at the expression on manny’s face I felt he lost, he felt it and was surprised when the verdict was announced.

  14. Jinky Bagagñan permalink
    March 26, 2008 5:51 pm

    Hi Febe,

    And, my judgment is just as good as everyone else.

    My sentiments, exactly.🙂

    Anyway, I felt the same way you did. In my mind, if Marquez landed more power punches, shouldn’t he have won the match? I was happy that Pacuiao won, of course. I jumped up and down, yelled at the top of my lungs, and clapped my hands like crazy. However, the worm of doubt refused to leave – and I even felt guilty for doubting the results when, obviously, Pacuiao’s victory is a cause for celebration. I guess I just need to understand it fully before I accept it as gospel.

    That’s why I am really grateful when you came along with a good, solid explanation. The per-round scoring system truly explains why Manny Pacquiao won.

    It was a close fight, indeed, but Miller’s scorecard indicates that even if Marquez won as many matches as Pacquaio did – Marquez would always lose by a point because Pacquiao knocked him down.

    I believe that Manny Pacquiao is one of the greatest boxers today. And now, I honestly and sincerely believe that Pacquiao did win his WBC title fairly. He deserves it!🙂

  15. febe permalink
    March 26, 2008 10:34 am

    You’re welcome. Glad to be of help.🙂

    I believe that Marquez did land more punches and at a higher percentage; reason why i felt he should have secured higher points than Pacquiao during the early and half part of the match (except R3) and won.

    Its obvious though that Pacquiao dominated the last quarter set of rounds so really, it was a close fight. And, my judgment is just as good as everyone else. 🙂

    I have no qualms, Manny is a spirited boxer, sincerely deserves the title and i celebrate his victory like the other million of proud filipinos. Congrats Pacman!

  16. Jinky Bagagñan permalink
    March 25, 2008 12:01 am

    Febe,

    No, YOU did not confuse me with your explanation and discussion. I’m fairly capable of confusing myself.😉

    Seriously, I understand so much better now. Your explanation makes sense. A per-round scoring (with fixed values for scores) would make Pacquiao winner even if Marquez appeared to have made more power punches.

    Duane Ford must have given Pacquiao 10 points in 7 rounds and 9 points in 5 rounds, and he must have given Marquez 10 points in 5 rounds, 9 points in 6 rounds and 8 points in the 3rd round.

    Roth, on the other hand, must have given Marquez 10 points for 8 rounds, 9 points in 3 rounds and 8 points on the 3rd round (when he was knocked down by Pacquaio). He must also have given Pacquiao 10 points for 4 rounds (including that 3rd round) and 9 points in 8 rounds.

    Finally, Miller must have given Pacquiao 10 points in 6 rounds and 9 points in 6 rounds, then gave Marquez 10 points in 6 rounds, 9 points in 5 rounds and 8 points in the 3rd round.

    The math checks out! Thank you, febe! I owe you one. 🙂

    Now I can be comfortable about the outcome and I’d no longer have any reservations about proclaiming Pacquiao the winner of that crucial match. Congratulations Pacquiao!

    A lesson learned that I’d like to share with everyone:

    Even if you believe something to be right or are inclined to believe that something is right, you should still ask whether what you believe is right. If you later find out that you were right all along, you will have made your position stronger and much more defensible.

    Again, thank you febe for enlightening me about how judges scored professional boxing matches. You’ve been a great help.

    – Jinky

  17. febe permalink
    March 24, 2008 2:59 pm

    Technically speaking, i believe Marquez should have won but being a filipino, my happiness and pride remain undiminished that Pacman was proclaimed champ.

    Pro-boxing is scored by the round. I think that generally scoring is based on the percentage of punches landed out of number of times a fighter attempted to hit.

    A boxer is given 10pts if he knocked-down his opponent in a round. The “knocked-down-fighter” on the other hand receives 8pts.

    When a “fighter-wins-a-round”, he is given 10, the other scores a 9.

    Fighters will both receive 10pts if a judge thinks neither won the round.

    At the end of the match, the points are summed up for each fighter.

    I hope i didnt confuse you with my description/explanation.🙂

  18. Jinky Bagagñan permalink
    March 24, 2008 3:21 am

    Hi Jo,

    Thanks for the response.🙂

    However, how do judges measure the damage done by one boxer to another? It just seems to be too subjective. This implies that judges use their personal standards when judging matches. In the Pacquiao-Marquez match, for instance, how did the judges decide that Pacquiao did more damage to Marquez than Marquez did to Pacquiao? Did that knockdown do it?

    I thought boxers are graded based on the number of punches landed and the quality of those punches (e.g. power punches have more weight than jabs).

    Of course, I’m no expert. After all, I have become interested in boxing only when Pacquiao started making a name for himself.🙂

    Everyone: Enlightenment is requested; additional comments and instruction on the subject are welcome. Do take pity on me, he he. If you know the answer, tell me.😉

  19. March 24, 2008 1:05 am

    manny pacquiao won, amateur boxing is different from professional boxing. Pacquiao did more damage to marquez. Its not the stats of the power punches landed its the damage done.

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